Friday, January 21, 2011

Historically speaking, is Israeli land really Israeli land?

No hate. A civilized discussion please

My question is:

The land which is called 'Israel', is it really Israeli land, if we look at it from a historical prespective/.

Palestinians consider the Gaza strip and the West bank to be theirs

Whose was Israel in the beginning if we look at history?


Yes, Jews lived there more than 3000 years ago, but, that doesn't mean that any Jew can go back there because of this! Judaism is a religion, not a nationality! Having a Jewish population doesn't give the British the right to make such a country. The British didn't even have the right to divide the population into different conuntries, let alone this!

The Phalestians (pronounced Palestinian in Latin) also lived there for thousands of years.

I had a debate with some guy a long time ago and we talked about all of this. Please be patient and read:

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AlZ9cM6TcLkAIKZi.ZB6zPnBFQx.;_ylv=3?qid=20080524084402AA8kJHg

And this:

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AovVT4T1iykrulovydmX9RHBFQx.;_ylv=3?qid=20080708150224AAmemoA&show=7#profile-info-PnBcDbTnaa

No, it has always been, always will be Palestine.

the jews fled to palestine during and after the holocaust, because they were fleeing hitler.

i can go on and on about this, but i gave a one sentence summary right there

It has always been of ours, of the Israelis.

Moses, Shlomo, David and many other Jewish prophets and kings were here before any darn muslim was here that thinks Israel is his land.

the historical record is in the bible. it was all part of Judea

there was no Israel, and i expect from you to dig in history much more, Palestine is 27,009 km2 and not negotiable,,

@ below kid

where did you get the crap from? Palestinians are the people of Palestine, before 1948 there was nothing called Israel, the pig Balfour had given the green light for them to come and occupy Palestine, done?

Before 1948, neither Jews nor Palestinians "owned" the land since antiquity. Both Arabs and Jews have lived here for centuries. A jewish presence has always existed here, and increased Jewish immigration started long before the Holocaust.

Israel proper (pre-1967 borders) has been Israeli land since 1948. Before that foreign empires controlled it for 2000 years. The West Bank and Gaza were controlled by the same foreign empires for centuries, and between 1948-1967 they were controlled by Egypt (Gaza) and Jordan (West Bank and East Jerusalem), but it was never Egyptian or Jordanian land according to international law.

Also, if we learn from history, the best solution to this conflict would be the two-state solution and not the creation of a single state.

It doesnt matter whose land it was first. israel won the war in the 67 and since the 40's there has been an israel, it is a legitimate state, so we muslims should stop complaining, and learn to live with one another. it is there land now, and we must live with that.

it was the ancient country of israel, as found in the bible.

the roman empire destroyed it.

the persians took over and allowed the jews to return.

in the year 70, the babylonians took over and forced many of the jews to leave.

various ouside muslim forces invaded a few times, ending with the muslim/turkish ottoman empire.

the ottoman empire took over.

the ottomans lost ww1 and britain took over.

with the UN, a plan was made to let britain (and france) leave, and create an arab state and a jewish state.

the jews agreed and israel was formed.

the arabs refused and declared war because they didn't want any jews there.

that's where we are today.

there was never, ever an independent arab state there.

there was never an arab group calling themselves palestinian until 1967.

israel was an independent jewish nation before islam was invented, and before arabs left arabia.

Balfour gave them this land after his promise, when he won the world war he divided the lands and gave them this land...which belong to PALESTINIANS! originally .

he wanted to get rid of them just like Hitler

No by all means.

"Not one Leader of any nearby Islamic Country,

dared to remove those crucifixes that the Roman

Empire placed to border the West Bank and Gaza,

also to border Palestine and Egypt."

"The Israeli refugees made an agreement with the

President Arafat of Palestine, 'to promptly remove

the crucifixes to once again settle into Jerusalem'."

"This is the sole reason I can agree for the tension

in the region of Lebanon, Palestine, Gaza, Egypt,

and of course, ....Israel."

"No. The Palestinians cannot win a war against

airplanes and bombs with small munitions."

"As of Spring 2008, ...the Middle Eastern region's

'Ready to Launch' Nuclear Missile Bases in Iran,

(that are on Land) have been destroyed."

"The State of Israel, do not have such devices to

Launch against the Islamic Nations."

"Those have all been depleted in a futile offensive

against the (hovering above 'the road Leading from

Jerusalem to Damascus'), angelic, platform; (that is

surrounded by an anti-gravity force field), during the

Late, former President Ronald Reagan Administration ."

Read the Bible, Israel was promised that land.

yes it is, israel has always belonged to the Jewish peopleA common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years. By the early 19th century â€" years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement â€" more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel's international "birth certificate" was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel's admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel's people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence“Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its 'right to exist.'

Israel's right to exist, like that of the United States, Saudi Arabia and 152 other states, is axiomatic and unreserved. Israel's legitimacy is not suspended in midair awaiting acknowledgement....

There is certainly no other state, big or small, young or old, that would consider mere recognition of its 'right to exist' a favor, or a negotiable concession

no

yes.

The torah clearly states that the area of Israel is the holy jewish land

and the torah predates Islam by many years, so yes it is jewish land

Almost all of Palestine belonged to the Ottoman Empire, and was considered government land. Under Ottoman land law, you could rent the land by cultivating it and paying a tithe to the government. If the land lay fallow for 3 years, your registration would be canceled. Zionists (this was an actual political organization of the times, this isn't meant as rhetoric) were buying what little private land there was long before WWI. Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, the League of Nations assigned the rule of the area that included Palestine to Britain, under the British Mandate. The brits proceeded to offer the government land up for sale, with no clear methodology or even decent record keeping. There was probably a lot of corruption going on along with it. The brits did their usual stunning job of completely mucking everything up, then fleeing the scene of the crime in 1947. This period of british government from 1918 to 1947 sewed the seeds for the bitter harvest of today.

In summary, neither Arab nor Jew owned the vast majority of Palestine as of 1918. After that point anyone's guess is as good (or bad) as any other's.

Check out http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm for an indicator of just how much rhetoric and make believe numbers occur on both sides of this debate.

well. according to jew historicians who studied history books that were writen by jews. who studied in a jew university, that was financed by a jew bank. who just happens to work in a jew network and happens to run a website. then yes, they do beleive it is theirs. and ANYONE and i mean ANYONE that goes against this idea is either( to jews point of view) a nazy or a anti-semtic or just another gentile with animal blood(according to the holy talmud)

however, the israelian gov is secular !!!!!!!!!!!!!, and israelian citizens are 90% of them are atheists lmao . they dont even believe in god in the first place, let alone the bible and the quran and let alone religion.

the other 10 % are extremly religious and they believe that god is mad at them and angry.

so idk how it is theirs when they are atheists. Also, jews dislike the quran and the bible for telling their bad history in the past ( a part of history that the jews so havent changed yet) but most of them dont dislike the holy books enough to take things out of contexts. to support their claims.

my israelian cute friend said that the land isnt holy at all. even tho shes a religious jew.

the israelian jews will contiune on insisting that it is theirs

and as long as that theres a chance that their untrue claims CAN go through ppl's minds( using religious what so called verses and seeking sympthy from people) THEN they gonna go for it.

but they never touched it for almost 6000 years.

the original place for the jews arent in the arab land. the early jews never worked as hard as other gentiles and build their own empires however, they thought that they r children of god so they were waiting for god to send someone like king david to get them a kingdome(thats y they thought jesus had a kingdome for them and when he didnt they denied him) that cause the early jews to never build a cilivation but they lived with the europeans and when israel established, the europeans were more than happy to get ride of the jews and send them away.

Peace !

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